User talk:SeventhEvening
Welcome I started this Wikia with the intention of shedding as much light on this great series as possible. The problem primarily is that because so many of the older games were only released in Japan, there is scant information on them. As frustrating as it may be that some articles here are only slightly altered from their Wikipedia versions, bear in mind that this is just a start. As time passes, I am certain that more information will see the light elsewhere on the net. Our job here, of course, is to find it all! (Unless the renewed popularity which Persona 3 has brought the series in the U.S. doesn't see the entire back catalogue being re-released!) Your help is appreciated and...Welcome aboard! icy 21:16, 2 June 2008 (UTC) Congratulations! Okay, I have granted you sysop rights, 'cause I'm thinking you're pretty serious about this. Call it a gut instinct. Congratulations! This should make things easier for you to edit. Please, don't abuse this right and thanks again for the work. By the way, I am away most of the time (just typical for a founder, right?). I usually work on the Capcom Database Wikia, since this is my current passion. icy 22:56, 2 June 2008 (UTC) The Fine Line Between Respect for the Source and the Newcomers Hmm. Well, over at Capcom Wiki, there was someone helping who decided to name the characters from Rival Schools with their full Japanese names, and I mean full, such as Inabata Inuwatanabe or whatever. How I always feel (and this is merely an opinion) that the Japanese have their own Wikis, don't they? Our wikis are primarily for English-speaking knowledge seekers. Therefore, I went and shortened the Rival Schools character's name to just Inabata (barring that there was no other character with the same name, to avoid confusion). I realize that this is a headscratcher, but make the best judgment you can. Just keep in mind that this wiki is used as a resource for others (not a personal or biased thing), and that when users wish to look up a character by the name they are known by, they can find them with ease. Good luck, and keep up the great work! You are doing good stuff. icy 21:13, 4 June 2008 (UTC) List of... I think we'll want to keep the List of articles after all. Expecially for Personae since they traverse so many games. I'll edit the templates to point there instead. I was just thinking that it would be a little hard to differentiate what persona was part of what game from which arcana without these List of..., you know? So, if you want to un-delete the Devil Summoner one, you might as well... May have to rename it to include the games full title though. Awesome work, by the way, even if they're stubs you are spectacular! Akkilmar 18:59, 17 June 2008 (UTC) :No problem, I'll go ahead an un-delete it. If we want to move it to a page with the full game name, it's no problem. Those lists are currently not connected with anything. I'm hoping to go through and improve a bunch of the more notable Personae. Especially Lucifer. His page is going to be a huge mess like Jack Frost. In FES they even renamed him, and then introduced a new persona called Lucifer. Ugh.... SeventhEvening 20:11, 17 June 2008 (UTC) ::Wow, I didn't expect two Lucifers for the same game. I'll try to help out as much as I can when I'm not maing templates. They're easy to make anyway, since I can pretty much mass-produce them. Like I said, I'll change the links in the templates to point to the List of... pages instead of the categories since the information is easier to read on the pages you made. It'll be easy. Akkilmar 20:24, 17 June 2008 (UTC) :::Maybe we should have both. My lists are useful if you're looking for something by arcana or strength (They're roughly organized by level under each arcana), but the categories make it easy to find something alphabetically. You have that section of "Archives", we might be able to add a "Lists" below that. Then we can have series specific lists down there of whatever we make lists off. Such as that Marebito page that's more or less just a list. I don't know, what do you think? Also, I might be a bit slow on the editing. I just got FES, and my work has gotten much busier, but I'll still make sure I get stuff done. SeventhEvening 21:17, 17 June 2008 (UTC) ::::I plan on redesigning the navigation templates when I get the chance, so I'll add the Lists and categories if possible. For right now I've altered all of the current templates to point to the lists and I've already made sure that the two you made are properly linked up and named. ^_~ I've spent a fair amount of time this week just categorizing things and organizing, and I'm pretty sure I've got most of it down now. Let me know if you have any questions about how to categorize something if you're not sure. ::::Anyway, for now just the Lists will suffice, I think. I'll work out a design that incorporates both, like I said, and we'll be set for organization. For now I'm going to take a break from the meat of the wiki and screw around with the userboxes I started. I don't know about you, but I lie them, so I'd like to make templates of them and pretty them up so anyone else can use them as well. What do you think? Akkilmar 02:13, 18 June 2008 (UTC) :::::Cool. I don't think I have any questions about categorizing. Unless I'm doing it all wrong, then I might need a few pointers. As far as the userboxes, I think they're pretty cool. If you make a template of them, I'd love to use it. SeventhEvening 07:32, 18 June 2008 (UTC) Aegis/Aigis Apologies. I really didn't know about the directive of using Japanese names instead of English. I formulated the initial foundation of MoS with English usage in mind - since we're an English Wikia. But...this is pretty confusing...I mean, the language of the wiki is English, but on game elements we use the Japanese ones - why? I think we should stick with using official English versions UNLESS a game or anything of the series is only found in Japan, in which case we should refer to their Japanese version name. Furthermore to focus on the spelling of Aegis and Aigis, the general kana for the English word Aegis is イージス (Iijisu), the kana for Aigis, as the Japanese game gives it, is アイギス (Aigisu) - you can check the Japanese Wikipedia on the word. Perhaps there is a reason why they used アイギス - perhaps to signify the word アイ (Ai) - love, but that's just my guess and I have no source. But still, the English word "Aegis" to my knowledge, does not appear in-game at all, so "Aegis is known as Aegis in the Japanese version" statement is moot - that is unless you can give me an in-game citation like the Japanese dialog or some such OR a Japanese Persona 3 official publication on them. Apologies. I'm a bit nitpicky on these things - ever since I joined Wikipedia and learned about the importance of official sources. Bluer 12:01, 27 June 2008 (UTC) :Good to see that my questions were answered :) As I have emphasized in my userpage, I am not well-versed in the Megaten universe. But at least we can all blame it on the localization effort. I've worked with another Wiki, and we are thankful that our wiki's subject topic's localization was taken seriously, so we encountered less trouble with determining the usage of names. :Since this is the case with the usage of Japanese names, then I should think my issue with the Aegis/Aigis name is settled. I did my own research and found about the whole usage of "Aegis" to refer to said character in the Japanese version earlier, and needed clarification on the issue of localization and the decision to use Japanese names - which you provided, thank you. I just hope any visitors would be aware of it, tho. :Don't worry, I didn't consider myself "beaten by sources", its rather my request for sources is fulfilled - a satisfying notion, and an honorable end, if I may :) Bluer 18:01, 27 June 2008 (UTC) ^I'm sorry Aigis has caused so much heartache around here. I just edited in a section explaining the final word on what is right and what is wrong. It could probably be elaborated to include misconceptions, but then it would take up more space (possibly a misconception section at the bottom XD) I'm not really sure why Atlus of America went with Aigis though, considering they dubbed over everything afaik... I wish to hell they would do the same for Kerberos.--Yksehtniycul 19:35, 3 August 2009 (UTC) Skill List Tables I've given the skill list table on Orpheus a new, simple look. Tell me what you think, before I do all of them and we decide we hate it, then I'll set to doing all of them that way. ^_^ Akkilmar 22:38, 16 July 2008 (UTC) :That is fantastic! I think that looks excellent. I knew you'd be able to come up with a good look for it! SeventhEvening 00:44, 17 July 2008 (UTC) Redirects & other Such There's be a pretty good number of pages that have been redirected--Persona 3 Personae, I think--to shortened or incorrect names. I was going to take care of them since I know you have enough on your plate, I'm sure, but I don't have the ability to undo them, it seems. Also, we need to find a way to make it very clear to people that we have a way of doing things because they always seem to deviate like crazy. Now that we have character templates we should probably add the information we had on characters to it (initial Persona, age, height, date of birth, etc.). I'd like to eventually cover things like YouTube videos on the song pages, but that's hardly a problem. There's a large number of tiny inconsistencies I'd love to correct that people have done since they just kind of seem to do things all willy-nilly. Anyway, I'm off to fix a few things up. Akkilmar 02:56, 29 July 2008 (UTC) :Thanks for repairing that stuff. We probably need to do a few more updates to the Manual of Style. I mean, obviously we can't make people read it, but it's a start. As for those Persona, I'll definitely fix any of the ones I run across. If you see any that bother you, post a link here or shout out on the discussion board and I'll go fix it. I know A1GIS makes some typos sometimes since he doesn't speak english as his first language, and sometimes I type too fast or make errors, so flaws and false redirects are inevitable. I thought you could fix them, but if you can't, theoretically, my sysop abilities should do it. SeventhEvening 09:24, 29 July 2008 (UTC) ::I understand the typo sitution all to well. I've been the typo queen on a number of occasions. I was mostly just pointing out a lot of the things that seemed unnecessary. I thought I could fix some of that stuff too, but it turned out I couldn't. Oh well. ^_^ Akkilmar 20:56, 30 July 2008 (UTC) ::Well, I'm wondering what to do about the spells that A1G1S imported over from the MegaTen Wiki forever ago. He split them up way back when, and now types of spells are redirecting to a broader spell type (Expel > Light, etc.). I'm not even sure they were split up enough in the first place, but I don't think groupings like that are what we were looking for. I'm just looking for a second opinion on the matter. Way too many redirects going on around here. It's making it hard for me to keep things categorized properly. Akkilmar 01:13, 2 August 2008 (UTC) :::Hmmm... Really I haven't looked much at how he split it up. I just remember when he cut and pasted, that he split it when asked, and I haven't really looked at it since. I think it's difficult, because I really would have though Light > Expel, and that Expel only refers to skills like Hama, while Light could theoretically be anything that deals light damage. I think we should probably split it into families rather than elements, and then have a game specific page for spells that can't be put into a family. For example, Agi, Agilao, Agidyne, would all be on a page like Agi Spells. All other fire attacks, like Ragnarok, would be on Persona 3 Spells. Assuming my information is correct. I know there is a fire skill called Ragnarok, but I don't know if it appears in Persona 3. It's an example, an example. Anyway, there are some unique exceptions, like we might have a page that covers status inflicting spells and cures, since the same status effects aren't always used, or alternatively, those spells could be tagged to the bottom of a page like Status Changes in Persona 3. As for the redirects, I was wondering if I was doing things right. I'm a bit re-direct heavy myself, since I want people to find what they're looking for, even if it's something like Gaki which goes by Preta in some games, despite being the same. For example, I have Ho-ou and Ho-oh taking people to Feng Huang. Nakajima Akemi takes people to Akemi Nakajima. Do you think this is too much, or is it appropriate? Should these redirects be tagged in someway? Because I haven't been adding categories to them. I'd hate to be the one causing all the redirect woe. SeventhEvening 02:36, 2 August 2008 (UTC) ::Alright, I see that Agi Spells redirects to a Fire Spells page. That could be a problem. For example, if we wanted to list the SP or MP cost of Agi in different games, Fire Spells would inflate to a pretty massive size. On the other hand, it's pretty similar to what I imagined it would be, only... still carrying several elements that are not part of our style. I don't know...What do you propose we do to fix it? SeventhEvening 03:00, 2 August 2008 (UTC) :::Your redirects are very much spot on. And I don't blame people for just digging in and doing what they want on the wiki, since that's the nature of the beast. The redirects you've been dealing with are generally names of creatures and things like that. However, the categorization is where we start getting into trouble, like we have a Spell List category where we only need spell, or Pesona 3 spell, etc. We could categorize them by the type of spell they are and that would work well. I think you're very much on the right path with your train of thought. Keeping spells that are specific to a game on one page, or dividing the "generic" up by one type or another, is a good idea too. :::What I'm thinking right now is that we need to decide on how we want to divide them. If A1G1S's way turns out to be the best way then we'll be good to go. Right now it's still cut and paste, and all that was done was redirects made so the links that came from the MegaTen Wiki would work. I think we can leave it until we get to the spell pages specifically for one game, or we can ask using the Manual of Style or the Spell pages themselves. I need to recategorize his work though. Akkilmar 00:36, 3 August 2008 (UTC) Great Work! As I've noticed, you're really knocking yourself out working here! I just wanted to say that I'm happy I made the right decision in granting you rights. You really know your stuff. I appreciate your hard work and dedication to this wiki. icy 03:07, 2 August 2008 (UTC) :Thanks for the compliment, I've been doing my best. Akkilmar's been a big help too, working on some of the organizational things that I'm a bit lacking in. A1GIS has been doing a lot of work too. How's Capcom wiki looking? SeventhEvening 03:28, 2 August 2008 (UTC) I agree. You've done more for this wiki than I thought could ever be done in the time it was done. Great work! Akkilmar 00:37, 3 August 2008 (UTC) Category Why you are deleting the categories I put on the Images? --I need your Halp! 23:39, 4 August 2008 (UTC) :I put a message on your user-talk page. It explains it there. SeventhEvening 23:40, 4 August 2008 (UTC) Images Hey... I think we should start to put on All of the Images we upload Fairy, don´t you agree? --I need your Halp! 01:53, 6 August 2008 (UTC) :I whole heartedly agree. I usually forget about it, but it actually should be on every image that has a copyright. I'll add a part about that to the Manual of Style to make sure that it happens. SeventhEvening 03:56, 6 August 2008 (UTC) A Template I made Um well you see I tried to make the stats table of Persona 3 into a template and this what it turned What do you think --I need ur Halp! 15:32, 13 August 2008 (UTC) Um if you don´t mind I have already made them into a template (P3, SMNT) I have already tested them and they work if there is something I should change fell free to tell me --I need ur Halp! 19:45, 13 August 2008 (UTC) Um I will bother whit something more how I should categorize my those Template (For the moment they are just Category:Template --I need ur Halp! 23:16, 13 August 2008 (UTC) :Category:Stat Templates is what I would use for templates you've made. Akkilmar 03:32, 14 August 2008 (UTC) A Question Do I have to make a citation when I research A demon Background? If the answer is yes how I make one? --I need ur Halp! 03:01, 9 September 2008 (UTC) :It's not really that important that you cite your sources, but please do try to make them accurate. We're really not as strict as Wikipedia SeventhEvening 05:52, 9 September 2008 (UTC) Navigation templates Hey, I just have a simple question... In what sort of articles would navigation templates go? I'm guessing only in articles about storyline locations, important characters and the like, but I wanted to be sure. Moonside 00:49, 19 March 2009 (UTC) :Yeah, pretty much characters, locations, major enemies, things like that. Mostly, anything listed in the navigational template should have one on it. Demons shouldn't have them unless they're extremely important to the plot of the game. Like Nyx or Izanami. SeventhEvening 03:25, 19 March 2009 (UTC) Good luck! I see that you've decided to become inactive because of me. That's unfortunate since you're one of the good contributors, but rest assured, the wiki won't fall apart without you. I'll be staying active as much as possible - improving and maintaining to the best of my abilities - the only time I'll definitely be inactive is when Death claims me, so no worries since that day will come soon. Good luck in your future endeavors ^^. BLUER一番 09:20, 2 June 2009 (UTC) What's happening? I've noticed Bluer is rearranging the wiki already. I'm swiftly loosing interest in intervention, and you seem to be out of the picture as well. I don't even want to start any controversy by suggesting moving the wiki. I've heard about disgruntled factions doing stuff like moving the entire spanish wikipedia into a separate wiki (perhaps to this day) ...but it would basically be a competitive situation if that happened, which would be ugly, and be without Bluer most likely. In other words, a branch that would be the objective/inclusive Megami Tensei versus the Atlus of America blinders wiki.... ugly ugly ugly. Unless I thought you would be on board to match this wiki's development cycle, I'd have a hard time justifying such an action. The only redeeming quality such a wiki could truly have is to foster an egalitarian no-nonsense environment. --Yksehtniycul 23:31, 2 August 2009 (UTC) PS: Now Bluer is even arguing (soon to be imposing) that in-universe is good??--Yksehtniycul 23:32, 2 August 2009 (UTC) ^One really major benefit to having a wiki under control is though it could not be an official arm of digitaldevildb.com. Digitaldevildb.com is multilingual and fairly committed to that. But we like the translation type of multilingual instead of different language speaking people just doing their own thing. That is it would be nice if the wiki was multilingual, and each different language version of a page mirrored the other versions upon translation. I could definitely support that kind of technology better if I held full sway over the wiki. I'm really a tech guy, not an editor. I never contribute any content to digitaldevildb.com if I can help it.--Yksehtniycul 23:43, 2 August 2009 (UTC) :Well, I'd be willing to take the reigns or this wiki, or to work on another wiki if things came to that. Unfortunately, Icy decided to resign while I was out of town and had many "real life" obligations that have more or less shut down my ability to get on here very often. Hopefully, I will be able to put more effort into this in a couple days, but "real life" is a bit more of a priority than this wiki for me, especially given how down hill it's gone over the past couple months. SeventhEvening 05:48, 3 August 2009 (UTC) ::So you're already a sysop? (you say so in one of your discussions above^) ...I was sort of under the impression you weren't for one reason or another. If you are then three sysops is technically a quorum and in all reality the two of us should be able to override Bluer if there is a majority agreement. Just saying that is how everything else works. And I think what Icy had intended by making me the "3rd" (i'd assumed he was one of the three) ::It's true if three authorities could at least agree to agree on a voting process, the three should be able to reach a conclusion on any yes/no question by vote. We could even start by voting on a bureaucrat. Or voting to branch the wiki if necessary. --Yksehtniycul 06:55, 3 August 2009 (UTC) :::Yes, I've been a sysop for quite a long time. I don't flaunt it around very much, but I do have those rights. The only time that I've used the powers was in the start of the wiki to move and delete things as we came to an agreement on how the wiki should be structured (a structure, I must add that was agreed on by everyone, even blue and icy, and had worked famously until May of this year). I am perfectly fine with calling a vote. Honestly, that's the most fair way of handling anything. Democracy now! SeventhEvening 19:07, 3 August 2009 (UTC) ::::I should think that's not the spirit of voting when you restrict voting to only those with "sysop" rights. Wikia commits to a community, and our editors should be nominating as well. BLUER一番 09:06, 3 August 2009 (UTC) :::::Normally, I would agree. But I can't in this circumstance. Blue, you have totally ignored the community in several cases, and I find it shocking to hear you spout nonsense about how much you and wikia support the community. Especially given some hard examples of when you said to hell with the community the moment things were not going your way. Don't believe me? I submit Talk:Shin Megami Tensei: Devil Summoner 2: Raidou Kuzunoha vs. King Abaddon with such wonderful anti-community quotes as "It is obvious to me that this wiki has been overtaken by elite purists" (said after more people disagreed with you than agreed) or another "because apparently a purist community that mysteriously reappeared two days ago went missing for months". I think you lose your right to talk about how much you stand for the community the moment you ignore their input and the moment you insult the community at large. SeventhEvening 19:07, 3 August 2009 (UTC) ::::::FYI: When I can I intend to look into setting up a separate install of the wiki to run some experiments with bots. My intention is to hack together some technology that would let digitaldevildb.com users translate this wiki and show the translations on digitaldevildb.com. I really want the wiki to remain here however for a number of reasons. I just figure an install would be the best infrastructure from which to go about setting up a mechanism for translation. ::::::PS: As with everything at digitaldevildb.com more or less, I really don't do it for the website. The site is more or less my playground for developing state of the art web technology, which I will deploy as soon as I'm ready to launch a software company with a business model which will rely heavily on online community integration and involvement. Just saying I'm not nuts, there is a profit motive of sorts behind my apparent enthusiasm for this sort of thing. --Yksehtniycul 18:58, 3 August 2009 (UTC) three way vote In my opinion the healthiest thing for this wiki would be to just start behaving like everything is up to three way vote (in the absence of actual community wide input) until everyone gets used to it. On the Bureaucrat matter I'd just say elevate all sysops to Bureaucrat and be done with it, and if there must be a new sysop then there should so in pairs or at the leaving of another so to always be an odd number. Anyway, like I said, let's just act like this is the new way and see if Bluer doesn't see the wisdom in it. PS: I think it would help if you would happen to edit more. Frankly I'm convinced Bluer was completely in check until it was clear you and Icy were not active and might not ever be, and so he saw the opportunity and took it. I hate to be so presumptive, but that definitely appeared to be the M.O. Otherwise he just cunningly agreed to get along and waited to flip everything upside down and see what happened. He is the greatest asset and surest route to ruin, treat him with respect. --Yksehtniycul 22:17, 3 August 2009 (UTC) :Sure, sounds fine to me. I'll try to edit more, but I don't want to make a ton of changes and then have to revert them (or have them reverted) due to another policy shift. Additionally, when I started working on the wiki, I had less obligations to deal with in other parts of my life. Right now, I've got a lot of shit going on, so I'm not as active. Hopefully, in a couple days, I'll free up some time to edit. SeventhEvening 04:24, 4 August 2009 (UTC) ::Lo, a test case. --Yksehtniycul 12:42, 5 August 2009 (UTC) Yksehtniycul blockage I don't think there has been any mention of User:Yksehtniycul being blocked. I sent "CatherineMunro" the following message entitled "Congratulations, you've blocked 10s of thousands of people.... I've had the opportunity to deal with so many soul sucking people in the last week from every direction I'm frankly relieved to be relieved of any obligation to make any stand for basic justice/human decency. Anyway, seeing as how wikia's culture is apparently anti-human, 16th century. When I can gather up my spirits again, I will add installing the wiki to digitaldevildb.com to my list of personal burdens I'm undertaking in order to bring basic civil-rights into the mainstream of the internet. It will have to have a sysop though, so you will have to get on board. At the moment I am still struggling tooth and nail to make any ground in getting digitaldevildb.com back up. It will happen eventually, but I can't put a date on it. I'm installing the website at http://www.swordofmoonlight.com/digitaldevildb.com/ at the moment. But it's mostly broken because it doesn't expect to be at an address like that. As soon as we can secure the domain name it will be were people expect it. You can at least monitor progress there to get an idea of how much longer it will be. And as soon as I have the databases hooked up I will put some news up at that address and send out a newsletter. I might have time to install a wiki before things go live. I will probably keep the place read-only until it's clear we won't be getting a more uptodate backup of the website installed. I will probably make a temporary forum for discussing stuff (that will get overwritten if I ever manage to get a full backup of the database -- the database backup we have is like 3 days old) Anyway, it's a petty (edited: freudian slip) there is no culture of ethics here. Bluer actually seems more thoughtful than your random wikia staff person. Seems flattery will get you everywhere. Classy. PS: Could be the last word I can get out judging by the brilliant draconian banning mechanism we got here. --Ecnadtnacycul 22:38, 6 August 2009 (UTC)